1 00:00:03,371 --> 00:00:06,171 We were just eating spaghetti at 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,173 the dinner table, 3 00:00:08,208 --> 00:00:11,343 and I was slurping my spaghetti, and she was not 4 00:00:11,412 --> 00:00:13,879 having it, but she was slurping her spaghetti. 5 00:00:13,947 --> 00:00:16,248 I thought it was funny. I was a kid. 6 00:00:16,317 --> 00:00:18,417 And all I remember is just eating my spaghetti, 7 00:00:18,485 --> 00:00:19,585 and then just feeling, like, 8 00:00:19,620 --> 00:00:21,787 a super intense, piercing pain, and looking over, 9 00:00:21,855 --> 00:00:23,622 and I had a fork in my arm. 10 00:00:26,093 --> 00:00:29,228 I don't ever remember going to the hospital or anything. 11 00:00:29,296 --> 00:00:32,331 I just remember sitting there and, like, getting stabbed in 12 00:00:32,399 --> 00:00:33,699 the arm and looking over, 13 00:00:33,767 --> 00:00:36,835 and they're just, like -- My arm literally bleeding with 14 00:00:36,904 --> 00:00:38,103 a fork in it. 15 00:00:39,407 --> 00:00:42,775 I have a tattoo that covers the scar from my mom, it says, 16 00:00:42,843 --> 00:00:44,009 "I forgive you." 17 00:00:44,045 --> 00:00:46,278 And then it's, uh, Mary Bernice Rowles underneath. 18 00:00:46,313 --> 00:00:47,613 It's my mom's initials. 19 00:00:57,591 --> 00:00:59,825 MAN: Mary Rowles sobbed in court. 20 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,728 Alice Jenkins showed little emotion as they heard the long 21 00:01:02,830 --> 00:01:05,764 list of charges they were about to admit to. 22 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,766 I have had cold-blooded murderers 23 00:01:07,802 --> 00:01:10,769 stand in front of me, rapists, child abusers, 24 00:01:10,871 --> 00:01:13,105 burglars, drug traffickers. 25 00:01:14,608 --> 00:01:17,509 I would have to say that the two of you are perhaps 26 00:01:17,545 --> 00:01:20,012 the coldest, most unfeeling, 27 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,183 least empathetic criminals I have ever seen. 28 00:01:25,286 --> 00:01:27,553 You don't really know, like, what's going on inside 29 00:01:27,621 --> 00:01:29,021 people's homes. 30 00:01:29,089 --> 00:01:30,789 You just don't know. 31 00:01:30,891 --> 00:01:33,025 There's, like, demons inside some homes 32 00:01:33,093 --> 00:01:34,393 and, like, you just don't know. 33 00:01:34,461 --> 00:01:35,394 It's scary, man. 34 00:01:35,429 --> 00:01:37,329 Like your neighbor, the person across 35 00:01:37,397 --> 00:01:39,798 the street or someone like your family, 36 00:01:39,867 --> 00:01:41,100 it could be your family member, 37 00:01:41,168 --> 00:01:42,601 you wouldn't even know it's happening. 38 00:01:49,043 --> 00:01:52,077 [The Paper Chase's "What's So Amazing About Grace?" plays] 39 00:01:52,113 --> 00:01:55,080 [strings continue playing sinister tune] 40 00:01:55,149 --> 00:02:00,252 [static crackling] 41 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,054 [knock at door] [creaking] 42 00:02:02,122 --> 00:02:07,192 [banging on door] 43 00:02:07,261 --> 00:02:12,431 [creaking] 44 00:02:12,499 --> 00:02:15,134 [water dripping] 45 00:02:15,169 --> 00:02:17,169 [banging on door] [creaking] 46 00:02:17,204 --> 00:02:19,238 [sinister chord strikes] 47 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:28,480 JESSE: My mother's name is Mary Rowles. 48 00:02:28,549 --> 00:02:31,416 From age 15 to 21, 49 00:02:31,485 --> 00:02:33,519 she had six children. 50 00:02:33,587 --> 00:02:36,421 The furthest back I can remember is... 51 00:02:36,490 --> 00:02:39,091 1997. 52 00:02:40,060 --> 00:02:44,496 I was living with my mom and my brother Tyler, 53 00:02:44,565 --> 00:02:46,265 my sister Marissa, 54 00:02:46,300 --> 00:02:51,336 my brother Darrell and Danny, and Caleb had just been born. 55 00:02:53,374 --> 00:02:55,641 She was, like, a really good mom. 56 00:02:55,709 --> 00:02:58,810 There's early photos of us, like, going 57 00:02:58,913 --> 00:03:00,445 to Chuck E. Cheese and stuff like that, 58 00:03:00,514 --> 00:03:01,980 and, like, just being kids. 59 00:03:02,049 --> 00:03:04,183 Before Alice, my mom treated us pretty good. 60 00:03:12,259 --> 00:03:16,428 My mom met Alice at a gay nightclub in Akron, Ohio. 61 00:03:16,463 --> 00:03:19,731 And then the next thing I know, we're living in a new house 62 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,501 with just Alice. 63 00:03:23,404 --> 00:03:25,537 My three older siblings, Darrell, 64 00:03:25,606 --> 00:03:29,141 Danny, and Marissa, moved in with their fathers, and I was 65 00:03:29,209 --> 00:03:32,544 left with Alice, Mary, my older brother, 66 00:03:32,613 --> 00:03:34,112 Tyler, and my younger brother, Caleb. 67 00:03:35,549 --> 00:03:38,517 And for a while, everything seemed okay. 68 00:03:38,585 --> 00:03:42,120 But Alice saw herself as the boyfriend, 69 00:03:42,189 --> 00:03:44,256 the man of the house. 70 00:03:44,324 --> 00:03:50,128 ♪ 71 00:03:50,197 --> 00:03:54,166 This is the house that we lived in last, 72 00:03:54,234 --> 00:03:57,236 I was 14 when I saw the house last. 73 00:03:57,304 --> 00:04:01,306 Just get, like, a little nervous when I see this. 74 00:04:01,375 --> 00:04:03,742 It seemed for -- like for years we were never gonna make 75 00:04:03,810 --> 00:04:07,613 it out of that house and away from Alice and Mary. 76 00:04:07,681 --> 00:04:11,083 It's just like... I don't know. 77 00:04:11,151 --> 00:04:14,586 Um, just makes me nervous, because it -- 78 00:04:14,655 --> 00:04:18,457 It just make -- like, this house makes me think about just, 79 00:04:18,525 --> 00:04:20,092 like, dark times. 80 00:04:20,127 --> 00:04:21,660 Nobody knew what was going on. 81 00:04:40,814 --> 00:04:42,514 At first, Alice treated us pretty good, 82 00:04:42,616 --> 00:04:44,616 like, pretty kind, but over time, 83 00:04:44,685 --> 00:04:49,154 she kind of got, like, jealous of the attention that Mary was 84 00:04:49,222 --> 00:04:51,156 giving us. 85 00:04:51,224 --> 00:04:55,427 Alice began to separate us from our mother 86 00:04:55,495 --> 00:04:59,131 and tie us to the bed when she went to work. 87 00:05:00,968 --> 00:05:02,534 Get on the bed and lie down. 88 00:05:04,538 --> 00:05:06,805 JESSE: Tyler and I were both put in the same room 89 00:05:06,940 --> 00:05:08,307 in the beginning, 90 00:05:08,375 --> 00:05:12,077 two twin beds side by side, essentially, and she would tie 91 00:05:12,145 --> 00:05:14,279 us by our wrists and our ankles to 92 00:05:14,315 --> 00:05:17,015 the bedposts so we would essentially be strung, like, 93 00:05:17,084 --> 00:05:20,452 laid out so we couldn't roll over or move around. 94 00:05:21,388 --> 00:05:23,622 Alice was never aggressive with it. 95 00:05:23,657 --> 00:05:25,757 She was just very quiet and very stern 96 00:05:25,826 --> 00:05:29,428 and just wanted to handle business and be done with it. 97 00:05:30,364 --> 00:05:32,264 And Mary was taking care of Caleb most of 98 00:05:32,332 --> 00:05:35,801 the day, because he was still a baby at the time. 99 00:05:36,937 --> 00:05:39,338 So I didn't see much of Mary. 100 00:05:39,406 --> 00:05:42,441 Stay here and be quiet until I get back. 101 00:05:44,311 --> 00:05:46,978 So we would just be, like, in a room tied to beds, 102 00:05:47,014 --> 00:05:48,680 Tyler and I, side by side. 103 00:05:50,084 --> 00:05:54,419 I didn't really understand, like, what was going on. 104 00:05:54,488 --> 00:05:56,955 It scares me more now, like, as an adult 105 00:05:57,023 --> 00:05:59,291 than it -- than it did when I was a kid. 106 00:05:59,359 --> 00:06:01,727 I didn't really understand it then -- I was 107 00:06:01,828 --> 00:06:04,463 just so young, and, like, just seemed normal. 108 00:06:04,531 --> 00:06:11,403 ♪ 109 00:06:11,438 --> 00:06:14,773 After a while, we figured out how to untie ourselves, 110 00:06:14,875 --> 00:06:17,042 and then we'd come downstairs 111 00:06:17,110 --> 00:06:20,178 to, like, hang out with our mom and hang out with Caleb. 112 00:06:22,950 --> 00:06:25,984 Alice would get very frustrated when she'd come home 113 00:06:26,052 --> 00:06:29,087 and see that we were downstairs with Mary, 114 00:06:29,122 --> 00:06:30,989 and we had escaped, 115 00:06:31,057 --> 00:06:35,761 but it definitely appeared as though it was kind of a game. 116 00:06:35,862 --> 00:06:37,596 Because, like, we didn't get punished for escaping. 117 00:06:37,664 --> 00:06:41,066 We would just go to bed and repeat the process. 118 00:06:41,134 --> 00:06:43,802 It seemed like that was the game of it all was to be 119 00:06:43,871 --> 00:06:45,771 tied up and then to escape 120 00:06:45,872 --> 00:06:48,407 and then to be tied up and to escape. 121 00:06:48,475 --> 00:06:52,978 It just seemed like she wanted the separation between 122 00:06:53,046 --> 00:06:57,949 Mary, Tyler, and I, trying to, like, break that bond. 123 00:06:58,018 --> 00:07:02,354 Alice sort of became the divide between Mary 124 00:07:02,422 --> 00:07:03,822 and her children. 125 00:07:14,601 --> 00:07:18,637 When we would escape during the day, she would come home, 126 00:07:18,705 --> 00:07:19,971 and we would be doing the same thing, 127 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:21,640 just on the couch, hanging out with Mary, 128 00:07:21,708 --> 00:07:23,008 trying to spend time with our mother. 129 00:07:23,076 --> 00:07:28,346 And one day, she just separated us into separate rooms... 130 00:07:33,020 --> 00:07:38,223 and tied the opposite opening doors together so that 131 00:07:38,291 --> 00:07:40,992 we couldn't get out or open either door. 132 00:07:41,995 --> 00:07:45,497 She was very quiet and reserved and almost seemed like 133 00:07:45,532 --> 00:07:47,032 it was just a task 134 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:50,569 that she had to do, almost as if we were just animals to take 135 00:07:50,604 --> 00:07:51,937 care of. 136 00:07:52,005 --> 00:07:54,105 The doors being tied together 137 00:07:54,174 --> 00:07:55,807 felt less of a game 138 00:07:55,909 --> 00:07:59,778 and more like a punishment or like imprisonment. 139 00:08:01,782 --> 00:08:03,315 There's, like, nothing really to do in the room. 140 00:08:03,350 --> 00:08:06,251 You're kind of just sitting around from like eight a.m. 141 00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:07,419 to four p.m., 142 00:08:07,487 --> 00:08:10,222 when Alice would come home to give us dinner. 143 00:08:10,290 --> 00:08:15,227 ♪ 144 00:08:15,295 --> 00:08:20,198 ♪ 145 00:08:20,234 --> 00:08:23,535 There's just no word to describe the emptiness 146 00:08:23,570 --> 00:08:26,338 of just, like -- just feeling like you're all alone, 147 00:08:26,373 --> 00:08:29,741 like, trapped in a space for an extended period of time, 148 00:08:29,843 --> 00:08:34,112 and there's no way to track time, and you're just there 149 00:08:34,180 --> 00:08:35,547 by yourself. 150 00:08:36,950 --> 00:08:38,750 There's no one there to talk to. 151 00:08:38,819 --> 00:08:40,218 You're kind of just, like, left in your own head, 152 00:08:40,254 --> 00:08:42,254 left to your own thoughts. 153 00:08:42,322 --> 00:08:45,257 Tyler and I liked banging on the walls and making music. 154 00:08:47,027 --> 00:08:49,361 That became a way that we would, like, talk to each other, 155 00:08:49,429 --> 00:08:51,329 as well, just like tapping on the wall. 156 00:08:53,233 --> 00:08:56,368 Even after dinner, we were still taken to our rooms 157 00:08:56,403 --> 00:08:58,970 and the doors were tied together 158 00:08:59,039 --> 00:09:02,140 so that we were just left alone in our separate 159 00:09:02,208 --> 00:09:03,141 rooms at night. 160 00:09:07,180 --> 00:09:09,781 Mary never said anything to us once 161 00:09:09,883 --> 00:09:12,951 we started being separated into separate rooms. 162 00:09:13,019 --> 00:09:15,220 Sometimes she wouldn't even, like, be there when 163 00:09:15,288 --> 00:09:16,254 we were at the table to eat dinner. 164 00:09:16,290 --> 00:09:17,622 It would just be us. 165 00:09:17,691 --> 00:09:20,992 We'd eat real quick and then go back upstairs. 166 00:09:23,263 --> 00:09:25,096 I do think it was to keep 167 00:09:25,165 --> 00:09:28,633 all of Mary's attention focused on Alice. 168 00:09:35,709 --> 00:09:38,977 Alice's behavior slowly got worse, and she started 169 00:09:39,045 --> 00:09:41,146 withholding food from us, 170 00:09:41,214 --> 00:09:43,949 essentially starving us. 171 00:09:44,017 --> 00:09:45,817 Up until this point, Alice would let 172 00:09:45,919 --> 00:09:47,719 Tyler and I out of the room. 173 00:09:48,655 --> 00:09:51,156 Most of the time, we would just have Captain Crunch 174 00:09:51,224 --> 00:09:53,792 or something for breakfast, just a little cereal. 175 00:09:53,927 --> 00:09:56,494 And then for dinner, the majority of what 176 00:09:56,563 --> 00:09:59,130 we had was mac and cheese and hot dogs. 177 00:10:01,068 --> 00:10:04,936 But I just remember one day, her coming up and opening 178 00:10:05,005 --> 00:10:07,505 the door, and I'm sitting there, 179 00:10:07,541 --> 00:10:09,674 and she just has a paper plate with a half 180 00:10:09,743 --> 00:10:11,076 a peanut butter sandwich on it. 181 00:10:14,247 --> 00:10:15,513 That was our dinner. 182 00:10:16,817 --> 00:10:18,216 Like, half a peanut butter sandwich 183 00:10:18,284 --> 00:10:22,020 didn't seem enough for a dinner 184 00:10:22,088 --> 00:10:24,990 or to last you through the whole day. 185 00:10:25,025 --> 00:10:26,424 You eat your sandwich, and when 186 00:10:26,493 --> 00:10:28,126 you're finished, you go right to bed. 187 00:10:30,597 --> 00:10:32,564 JESSE: I just thought it was just, like, a snack or something 188 00:10:32,632 --> 00:10:35,600 until it started to become routine, where she wouldn't let 189 00:10:35,669 --> 00:10:37,736 us out. 190 00:10:37,804 --> 00:10:40,171 It went from having dinner downstairs 191 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:41,506 and breakfast downstairs, 192 00:10:41,574 --> 00:10:44,075 to, like, just eating in the room all the time. 193 00:10:44,111 --> 00:10:49,381 ♪ 194 00:10:49,449 --> 00:10:52,717 We weren't allowed out to use the restroom. 195 00:10:52,786 --> 00:10:57,088 That's when we started using the corners of the bedroom. 196 00:10:57,157 --> 00:10:59,791 We would pull up the carpets and use 197 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,127 the restroom and put down the corner of the carpet 198 00:11:02,195 --> 00:11:03,561 so Alice couldn't find it, 199 00:11:03,597 --> 00:11:08,400 and we did that for months and months. 200 00:11:08,468 --> 00:11:09,467 It's just crazy. 201 00:11:09,536 --> 00:11:11,369 It's very animalistic. 202 00:11:11,438 --> 00:11:16,641 No one should have to survive like that. 203 00:11:16,677 --> 00:11:19,577 I was not able to talk to Tyler during that time. 204 00:11:19,613 --> 00:11:23,682 I assumed he was getting the same food I was, 205 00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:25,950 but we hadn't seen each other 206 00:11:26,019 --> 00:11:30,121 for 10 to 11 months at that time. 207 00:11:30,157 --> 00:11:32,123 At that point, it's almost like 208 00:11:32,192 --> 00:11:34,492 the days all connect, because everything's the same. 209 00:11:34,561 --> 00:11:41,366 ♪ 210 00:11:41,434 --> 00:11:43,802 We had no other contact with Alice besides that. 211 00:11:43,904 --> 00:11:47,105 And Mary didn't do anything in this situation. 212 00:11:47,173 --> 00:11:49,140 Is everything okay? 213 00:11:49,209 --> 00:11:53,178 They're fine. They're just having dinner. 214 00:11:53,246 --> 00:11:55,413 Mary should have called the police in this situation 215 00:11:55,482 --> 00:12:00,418 or called CPS or called a family friend or her parents. 216 00:12:00,454 --> 00:12:02,620 She could have just walked out. 217 00:12:02,689 --> 00:12:06,458 She didn't stand up for her children, defend us, 218 00:12:06,526 --> 00:12:08,326 protect us like you're supposed to. 219 00:12:10,497 --> 00:12:13,398 I've asked her why she allowed it to happen multiple times, 220 00:12:13,466 --> 00:12:15,400 and she says that she was strung out 221 00:12:15,468 --> 00:12:18,570 on morphine and just simply wasn't herself. 222 00:12:18,605 --> 00:12:20,972 But it's not supposed to be like that. 223 00:12:21,007 --> 00:12:23,007 [sniffles] 224 00:12:23,076 --> 00:12:24,509 She failed. 225 00:12:26,646 --> 00:12:29,547 She should have just left. 226 00:12:36,189 --> 00:12:39,224 JESSE: Mary had taken Darrell and Danny 227 00:12:39,259 --> 00:12:42,761 and Marissa's fathers to court for custody. 228 00:12:42,862 --> 00:12:45,096 Mary wanted partial custody. 229 00:12:45,132 --> 00:12:47,599 So they'd come over and visit and hang out 230 00:12:47,667 --> 00:12:51,069 for a couple hours on the weekend. 231 00:12:51,137 --> 00:12:55,306 There was a honeymoon phase of about two weeks to a month 232 00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:56,608 where everyone was on 233 00:12:56,676 --> 00:12:59,911 good terms, and we all just slept in normal beds, and we had 234 00:12:59,946 --> 00:13:03,281 breakfast and dinner downstairs. 235 00:13:03,349 --> 00:13:06,084 Alice was kind of, like, trying to cover her tracks so they 236 00:13:06,186 --> 00:13:09,020 couldn't say anything when they would return home 237 00:13:09,088 --> 00:13:11,389 to their biological father. 238 00:13:14,361 --> 00:13:19,230 ♪ 239 00:13:19,299 --> 00:13:21,733 One day, we're just woken up, and we're dressed 240 00:13:21,801 --> 00:13:24,969 in very minimal clothes, like shorts and a T-shirt. 241 00:13:25,038 --> 00:13:28,139 Now I'm just, like, being walked somewhere with Marissa. 242 00:13:30,977 --> 00:13:32,477 We had never been outside at that point. 243 00:13:32,512 --> 00:13:38,283 ♪ 244 00:13:38,351 --> 00:13:42,320 My first day walking to school was the first time I ever 245 00:13:42,388 --> 00:13:44,422 remember going outside, 246 00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:47,792 and I didn't realize there was a whole world, like, 247 00:13:47,861 --> 00:13:49,127 outside of the bedroom. 248 00:13:51,331 --> 00:13:54,799 Alice is standing on the sidewalk in front of 249 00:13:54,934 --> 00:13:56,034 the house, 250 00:13:56,102 --> 00:13:58,169 watching Marissa walk us down the street 251 00:13:58,238 --> 00:13:59,938 to the elementary school. 252 00:14:00,006 --> 00:14:02,607 I didn't understand what school was even. 253 00:14:04,211 --> 00:14:09,581 We were all very unequipped to even be in public at the time. 254 00:14:09,616 --> 00:14:12,317 We couldn't read. I couldn't tie my shoes. 255 00:14:12,385 --> 00:14:15,119 We weren't potty trained. 256 00:14:15,188 --> 00:14:17,722 They were literally sending wild animals to school. 257 00:14:19,125 --> 00:14:21,893 But I don't remember any of the teachers 258 00:14:21,961 --> 00:14:23,628 asking any questions 259 00:14:23,696 --> 00:14:27,332 about my size or my malnourishment or showing 260 00:14:27,367 --> 00:14:29,033 any concern, 261 00:14:29,102 --> 00:14:31,135 and I don't remember ever telling anyone at 262 00:14:31,204 --> 00:14:32,337 school either. 263 00:14:37,510 --> 00:14:40,511 We were going to school for about 2 to 3 weeks, 264 00:14:40,580 --> 00:14:44,549 and we were just taken out instantly, all of a sudden. 265 00:14:44,584 --> 00:14:48,553 I hope that one of the teachers reported something 266 00:14:48,588 --> 00:14:50,021 or someone said something, 267 00:14:50,056 --> 00:14:53,391 but I don't know if they -- Any of my teachers knew what was 268 00:14:53,459 --> 00:14:55,026 going on. 269 00:14:55,094 --> 00:14:56,761 Nothing ever came of it. 270 00:14:56,829 --> 00:14:59,397 Nothing was ever done about our situation. 271 00:14:59,465 --> 00:15:02,300 And once Alice and Mary pulled us out of school, 272 00:15:02,335 --> 00:15:05,470 things started to get worse at home. 273 00:15:13,313 --> 00:15:16,648 It was about a week or two after we'd stopped going 274 00:15:16,716 --> 00:15:19,083 to school, and we had seen kids 275 00:15:19,152 --> 00:15:22,620 out on the sidewalk, coming home from school. 276 00:15:24,090 --> 00:15:25,423 They're hollering up at us. 277 00:15:25,458 --> 00:15:27,926 Hey! Hi, guys! 278 00:15:27,961 --> 00:15:29,627 And they're, like, trying to get us to come out and play, like, 279 00:15:29,696 --> 00:15:30,828 "Let's hang out." 280 00:15:30,931 --> 00:15:32,163 And, like, that's all they were trying to do, 281 00:15:32,231 --> 00:15:33,531 just, like, kids being kids. 282 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:34,899 We can't come out. 283 00:15:34,968 --> 00:15:36,401 We're not allowed. 284 00:15:36,469 --> 00:15:39,003 We're hollering down to them, tapping on the window. 285 00:15:39,039 --> 00:15:41,205 But then it ended up, like, getting us in trouble... 286 00:15:41,274 --> 00:15:42,407 Hey! 287 00:15:42,475 --> 00:15:43,675 because Alice came home and was, like, freaking out. 288 00:15:43,710 --> 00:15:45,944 What the hell is going on in here? 289 00:15:47,247 --> 00:15:49,180 Get away from that window! 290 00:15:49,248 --> 00:15:51,015 "What are you doing? Like, you're not supposed to be by 291 00:15:51,051 --> 00:15:53,251 the window, and people shouldn't know you're in here." 292 00:15:53,319 --> 00:15:57,088 If you can't behave yourselves, you can stay in here. 293 00:16:00,060 --> 00:16:02,460 JESSE: And then that's when the closet thing started. 294 00:16:04,264 --> 00:16:07,565 It's a 3-by-5 closet with a carpet inside. 295 00:16:09,369 --> 00:16:12,503 There was no shelving, no overhead bar to 296 00:16:12,539 --> 00:16:13,771 hang anything. 297 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,774 Just an empty closet, no pull string lamp, nothing. 298 00:16:17,944 --> 00:16:20,111 And so she puts us in the closet and just -- 299 00:16:20,146 --> 00:16:22,280 I just remember that padlock going on 300 00:16:22,348 --> 00:16:24,549 and, like, it being really dark in there. 301 00:16:34,627 --> 00:16:37,161 The first time that Alice put us in a closet, 302 00:16:37,230 --> 00:16:41,799 I thought it would be a one-time or just, like, a short 303 00:16:41,901 --> 00:16:44,002 span punishment, but it just 304 00:16:44,037 --> 00:16:47,338 ended up being continuous and ongoing. 305 00:16:51,011 --> 00:16:55,580 In the beginning, the closet door was just getting locked, 306 00:16:57,083 --> 00:17:01,219 and then over time, a large brown dresser was 307 00:17:01,254 --> 00:17:05,056 acquired, and they would take that dresser and put it in 308 00:17:05,124 --> 00:17:08,359 front of the closet door so that if she ever forgot 309 00:17:08,428 --> 00:17:10,795 the lock, which she did a couple of times, 310 00:17:10,897 --> 00:17:12,196 the dresser's there. 311 00:17:12,265 --> 00:17:14,232 For about three years, 312 00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:16,968 we were spending periods of time in the closet, 313 00:17:17,003 --> 00:17:18,603 which is complete dark, 314 00:17:18,671 --> 00:17:20,972 like, there's no light except for the light that comes 315 00:17:21,007 --> 00:17:22,173 underneath the door. 316 00:17:23,309 --> 00:17:26,511 And we would get fed super sporadically, not let out 317 00:17:26,579 --> 00:17:28,980 for breakfast, not let out for dinner. 318 00:17:29,883 --> 00:17:32,016 There was no regular schedule -- Alice just came 319 00:17:32,085 --> 00:17:35,153 in whenever she pleased to feed us. 320 00:17:35,221 --> 00:17:37,922 Alice would come upstairs with half a peanut butter sandwich 321 00:17:37,957 --> 00:17:41,092 and either let us out, and we would have to eat it 322 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,161 in front of her on our knees, 323 00:17:43,229 --> 00:17:46,164 or she would open the door and just give it to us, and we would 324 00:17:46,232 --> 00:17:49,767 eat where we'd been using the restroom and sleeping. 325 00:17:49,836 --> 00:17:53,404 There would be two of us sharing 326 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,207 this half a peanut butter sandwich, 327 00:17:56,242 --> 00:17:58,276 so we would eat as slow as possible, 328 00:17:58,344 --> 00:18:02,480 just, like, essentially, like, little hamster nibbles, 329 00:18:02,515 --> 00:18:06,717 and then we would vomit it back up and eat it again. 330 00:18:06,786 --> 00:18:07,985 It's a tough one to think about. 331 00:18:08,054 --> 00:18:11,622 It was a survival tactic. 332 00:18:11,691 --> 00:18:14,425 I actually, like, struggled with a huge eating disorder when 333 00:18:14,494 --> 00:18:15,526 I became a teenager, 334 00:18:15,595 --> 00:18:18,729 because of, like, my body could not keep food down, 335 00:18:18,798 --> 00:18:21,966 and I have terrible, terrible vision from, like, 336 00:18:22,001 --> 00:18:25,570 being locked in the dark. 337 00:18:29,008 --> 00:18:31,776 At one point, we had thought that we could escape through 338 00:18:31,844 --> 00:18:32,743 the closet, 339 00:18:32,745 --> 00:18:34,946 like digging a hole out of the house. 340 00:18:35,014 --> 00:18:37,115 We were just using our fingernails to, like, 341 00:18:37,183 --> 00:18:38,382 dig our way out. 342 00:18:42,021 --> 00:18:46,591 Tyler and I were confined to the closet for anywhere 343 00:18:46,659 --> 00:18:50,461 from a couple of weeks to a month at a time, 344 00:18:50,530 --> 00:18:51,796 and we're in complete darkness, 345 00:18:51,898 --> 00:18:52,997 so we don't know what time it 346 00:18:53,065 --> 00:18:56,567 is until Alice opens the closet door. 347 00:18:56,636 --> 00:19:00,505 I didn't have a concept of day or night and, like, 348 00:19:00,573 --> 00:19:03,808 I didn't understand the concept of telling time. 349 00:19:03,910 --> 00:19:08,112 Now that I know how to tell time, and I know what a year is, 350 00:19:08,181 --> 00:19:11,916 like how -- How fast a year goes by, 351 00:19:11,984 --> 00:19:15,186 and then, like, one month or two months 352 00:19:15,254 --> 00:19:18,222 in darkness feels like 10 years. 353 00:19:18,291 --> 00:19:20,925 It's hard to keep track of like who you are 354 00:19:20,993 --> 00:19:25,429 and how old you are, and time is super foggy. 355 00:19:25,498 --> 00:19:28,799 And so now, I always keep track of time, and I manage time, 356 00:19:28,868 --> 00:19:31,202 and I try -- I try to do as much as I can 357 00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:34,572 with the time I've got, but... 358 00:19:34,607 --> 00:19:36,407 It's a long time. 359 00:19:36,475 --> 00:19:40,244 It seems like such a long time. 360 00:19:40,313 --> 00:19:41,512 [sniffles] 361 00:19:41,548 --> 00:19:43,080 Can I take a break? 362 00:19:45,151 --> 00:19:46,317 [sniffles] 363 00:19:46,352 --> 00:19:54,352 ♪ 364 00:20:17,984 --> 00:20:21,219 This is the closet, the 3-by-5 that we were in, 365 00:20:21,287 --> 00:20:23,988 um, and Tyler and I would just share this space. 366 00:20:24,924 --> 00:20:26,357 When I see it fully lit up, 367 00:20:26,392 --> 00:20:28,593 definitely feels like a different space. 368 00:20:28,661 --> 00:20:32,830 I always remember it as just, like, a large, 369 00:20:32,898 --> 00:20:35,566 black box, 370 00:20:35,602 --> 00:20:38,803 and you can see that we tore the paint clean off 371 00:20:38,938 --> 00:20:41,939 the walls in a few spaces, and we did that with 372 00:20:42,008 --> 00:20:43,140 our fingernails. 373 00:20:46,613 --> 00:20:49,714 There were often times we would end up sleeping 374 00:20:49,782 --> 00:20:52,016 in our urine, because we wouldn't be allowed to 375 00:20:52,084 --> 00:20:56,520 use the restroom for days at a time, and we'd just have to 376 00:20:56,556 --> 00:20:58,122 use the restroom in the closet. 377 00:20:58,157 --> 00:21:01,192 It's insane to think that we survived 378 00:21:01,227 --> 00:21:03,294 in, like, just a small space, just him and I for, like, 379 00:21:03,362 --> 00:21:05,796 so long and, like, held out. 380 00:21:07,367 --> 00:21:12,403 It's just crazy to think that Alice could have 381 00:21:12,438 --> 00:21:16,340 put us into an environment like this for so long. 382 00:21:24,917 --> 00:21:27,418 JESSE: All the physical violence was towards Tyler. 383 00:21:28,888 --> 00:21:30,821 It started with him getting kicked in 384 00:21:30,957 --> 00:21:33,624 the groin, and then him getting 385 00:21:33,693 --> 00:21:35,626 kicked down the stairs. 386 00:21:35,695 --> 00:21:39,764 Alice just had a lot of hate for Tyler. 387 00:21:39,832 --> 00:21:43,301 Tyler and I would be in the closet, and we would be 388 00:21:43,369 --> 00:21:46,771 too loud for Mary and Alice while they were home, 389 00:21:46,906 --> 00:21:48,739 just by talking. 390 00:21:48,808 --> 00:21:52,043 Anything that disturbed Alice's time 391 00:21:52,111 --> 00:21:54,478 with Mary earned you a spanking. 392 00:21:54,514 --> 00:21:56,914 You can hear her steel-toed boots 393 00:21:56,982 --> 00:21:58,883 that she wears coming up the steps. 394 00:21:58,918 --> 00:22:00,951 It would sound incredibly heavy 395 00:22:01,020 --> 00:22:03,621 and ominous and dangerous and aggressive. 396 00:22:03,723 --> 00:22:05,356 She's coming. 397 00:22:05,424 --> 00:22:07,124 Shhh. 398 00:22:07,193 --> 00:22:11,996 That became, like, the notorious sound, just pounding. 399 00:22:12,064 --> 00:22:14,065 The second you hear her hit that bottom step, 400 00:22:14,133 --> 00:22:17,034 it's like be quiet, don't move, if she can't hear us in 401 00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:18,736 the closet, maybe she'll forget we're here. 402 00:22:21,274 --> 00:22:25,176 You know I can hear you all the way downstairs. 403 00:22:26,446 --> 00:22:30,047 She would essentially call us out of the closet and force us 404 00:22:30,116 --> 00:22:31,649 to get down on your shins 405 00:22:31,717 --> 00:22:35,186 and knees and look up at her, because she wants that 406 00:22:35,221 --> 00:22:36,721 power of people below her. 407 00:22:36,822 --> 00:22:38,289 Get out here. 408 00:22:38,357 --> 00:22:39,757 - But I... - Now! 409 00:22:41,928 --> 00:22:44,762 She would spank or whip him with the belt. 410 00:22:44,830 --> 00:22:46,997 It became less about, like, getting fed 411 00:22:47,066 --> 00:22:48,599 and more about just, like, surviving. 412 00:22:50,236 --> 00:22:52,136 I would have rather died of starvation 413 00:22:52,171 --> 00:22:53,971 than him gotten beat a couple of times. 414 00:22:56,175 --> 00:22:58,142 He and I have talked -- he just 415 00:22:58,177 --> 00:23:00,544 feels like he was treated like a slave. 416 00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:02,380 That wasn't fair. 417 00:23:05,184 --> 00:23:08,219 I would do it all over again just to prevent all of that. 418 00:23:19,432 --> 00:23:22,933 One day, Tyler and I are taken out of the bedroom and taken 419 00:23:23,002 --> 00:23:25,403 downstairs and sat on the floor 420 00:23:25,471 --> 00:23:32,076 in the family room, and a trash bag of stuffed animals and toys 421 00:23:32,144 --> 00:23:34,412 and trinkets, which we'd never seen before, 422 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:35,980 spewn all over the floor. 423 00:23:36,048 --> 00:23:37,948 Go ahead. Play. 424 00:23:38,017 --> 00:23:39,984 JESSE: We're not, like, really playing. 425 00:23:40,052 --> 00:23:43,020 We're just sitting there, and it's all super strange. 426 00:23:43,088 --> 00:23:45,122 We'd never been given anything, 427 00:23:45,158 --> 00:23:47,525 and two strangers we've never seen before 428 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:48,559 came into the house. 429 00:23:50,296 --> 00:23:51,429 I thought maybe it was just, 430 00:23:51,497 --> 00:23:54,665 like, some of Alice and Mary's friends. 431 00:23:56,068 --> 00:23:58,636 We didn't know at the time that was CPS. 432 00:24:00,006 --> 00:24:03,340 I believe CPS was prompted to come to the house 433 00:24:03,409 --> 00:24:05,443 because someone, 434 00:24:05,511 --> 00:24:08,946 either Marissa or Danny or Darrell, said something to 435 00:24:09,014 --> 00:24:10,047 their fathers. 436 00:24:11,484 --> 00:24:14,485 Danny and Darrell would come over on the weekend, 437 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,987 so they would come upstairs and hang out with us. 438 00:24:17,056 --> 00:24:19,356 Alice would let Tyler and I out of the closet. 439 00:24:19,425 --> 00:24:21,091 So we would be in the room, 440 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,962 and you could smell the feces in the bedroom. 441 00:24:25,030 --> 00:24:30,034 And I assume over the span of the years that Danny, 442 00:24:30,102 --> 00:24:34,071 Darrell, and Marissa were saying something to their parents 443 00:24:34,139 --> 00:24:37,441 or their teachers at school about our conditions. 444 00:24:37,477 --> 00:24:41,278 But CPS never -- never went upstairs, never looked at 445 00:24:41,347 --> 00:24:44,181 the bedroom, never looked at the closet. 446 00:24:44,250 --> 00:24:46,350 They didn't ask us any questions at all. 447 00:24:46,418 --> 00:24:49,386 If they would have just gone upstairs and turned 448 00:24:49,455 --> 00:24:51,689 the corner into the bedroom, it would have been over, 449 00:24:51,757 --> 00:24:53,324 but they didn't. 450 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:54,925 Alice seemed super calm. 451 00:24:54,961 --> 00:24:57,828 Mary really let Alice do most of the talking. 452 00:24:57,897 --> 00:24:59,396 It's like theater to Alice. 453 00:24:59,465 --> 00:25:03,300 It's all just, like, a big show to put on. 454 00:25:03,369 --> 00:25:05,536 Thank you so much for coming to check in. 455 00:25:05,604 --> 00:25:08,739 JESSE: When they left, Alice packed up 456 00:25:08,841 --> 00:25:11,008 all the stuffed animals and the toys 457 00:25:11,076 --> 00:25:12,576 right back into the garbage bags 458 00:25:12,645 --> 00:25:17,014 that they were in, and we were taken right back upstairs 459 00:25:17,082 --> 00:25:19,049 and put right back into the closet. 460 00:25:20,620 --> 00:25:23,587 Once Alice had that first CPS visit, 461 00:25:23,656 --> 00:25:25,122 and they walked out the door, 462 00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:28,192 she knew she was golden. She could get away with it. 463 00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:44,441 In 2003, Darrell, Danny, Marissa, 464 00:25:44,477 --> 00:25:46,510 Tyler, myself, and Caleb 465 00:25:46,579 --> 00:25:48,379 were all living in the house. 466 00:25:48,447 --> 00:25:51,649 Mary wanted full custody, 467 00:25:51,684 --> 00:25:54,585 and my three older siblings moved 468 00:25:54,620 --> 00:25:56,120 into the home with us. 469 00:25:57,156 --> 00:25:59,356 We were always telling Danny and Darrell that we weren't 470 00:25:59,425 --> 00:26:02,493 getting fed, and then that would get back to Marissa. 471 00:26:03,963 --> 00:26:07,298 Marissa was essentially our golden ticket. 472 00:26:08,768 --> 00:26:11,435 Marissa had led us out into the room a couple times, 473 00:26:11,503 --> 00:26:13,771 and then Marissa would sometimes be 474 00:26:13,873 --> 00:26:16,440 the one to, like, have to lead us to the bathroom, because 475 00:26:16,508 --> 00:26:18,042 Alice doesn't want to deal with it. 476 00:26:20,246 --> 00:26:22,980 She was never inhumane about anything. 477 00:26:23,048 --> 00:26:24,815 Like, she definitely looked out for us. 478 00:26:24,917 --> 00:26:27,618 One time, I remember Marissa letting us 479 00:26:27,686 --> 00:26:30,020 out of the closet, and she talks about how 480 00:26:30,089 --> 00:26:31,422 Alice and Mary had went out. 481 00:26:31,457 --> 00:26:33,591 We asked her if, like, can we go downstairs, 482 00:26:33,659 --> 00:26:35,492 can we -- can we get some food? 483 00:26:35,561 --> 00:26:37,294 Please? 484 00:26:37,330 --> 00:26:39,096 All right, but we have to make this quick, 485 00:26:39,164 --> 00:26:40,864 because they could get home any minute. 486 00:26:40,933 --> 00:26:42,199 Got it? 487 00:26:42,267 --> 00:26:46,370 And we went downstairs to check out the kitchen to find 488 00:26:46,405 --> 00:26:48,072 the cupboards were packed, 489 00:26:48,140 --> 00:26:51,609 the fridge was packed, everything completely full. 490 00:26:53,346 --> 00:26:56,981 And in that moment, it definitely made Alice seem like 491 00:26:57,049 --> 00:27:00,584 more of just an outright evil by choice 492 00:27:00,653 --> 00:27:05,956 person, when she clearly had all the resources to 493 00:27:06,025 --> 00:27:08,759 provide, and she just chose not to. 494 00:27:09,795 --> 00:27:12,229 I was definitely overwhelmed that even that -- 495 00:27:12,297 --> 00:27:14,264 That much food could exist in one space. 496 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:19,803 We took anything from cans of Pringles to Gatorade to 497 00:27:19,939 --> 00:27:22,306 granola bars, everything that they had, 498 00:27:22,374 --> 00:27:23,807 we took upstairs. 499 00:27:25,511 --> 00:27:27,845 And we had Marissa put us back into the room. 500 00:27:27,913 --> 00:27:32,449 You can't tell anyone about this, all right? 501 00:27:32,518 --> 00:27:35,719 JESSE: Locked us back in the closet, and we ate as much as we could. 502 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:40,557 I had never been so full in my life, and it was delicious. 503 00:27:45,631 --> 00:27:48,799 And when Alice got home, she was furious, 504 00:27:48,868 --> 00:27:50,534 absolutely furious. 505 00:27:52,071 --> 00:27:57,241 It was probably two or three days before we got fed again. 506 00:27:57,276 --> 00:27:59,076 Alice lets us out of the closet, 507 00:27:59,144 --> 00:28:00,878 and we're kneeling, and she's standing above us. 508 00:28:00,946 --> 00:28:03,113 She had a bowl for each of us. 509 00:28:04,316 --> 00:28:07,117 She just puts it down, and like we all see it, and she 510 00:28:07,153 --> 00:28:11,388 just told us that we had to eat it for stealing her food. 511 00:28:11,424 --> 00:28:12,990 What's the matter? 512 00:28:13,025 --> 00:28:14,758 I thought you were hungry. 513 00:28:14,860 --> 00:28:17,494 We were forced to eat feces. 514 00:28:17,563 --> 00:28:20,064 Eat it. 515 00:28:20,099 --> 00:28:22,099 JESSE: And we assumed it was the family dog, 516 00:28:22,167 --> 00:28:23,400 like from the backyard. 517 00:28:23,436 --> 00:28:29,573 ♪ 518 00:28:29,641 --> 00:28:31,809 Sometimes, I think about, like, I didn't have to do it. 519 00:28:31,877 --> 00:28:33,177 Like, they didn't have a gun to my head. 520 00:28:33,245 --> 00:28:37,314 But like, I just felt so trapped in that situation. 521 00:28:37,382 --> 00:28:40,184 Makes me feel super low as a human. 522 00:28:43,656 --> 00:28:45,189 [sniffles] 523 00:28:45,257 --> 00:28:47,891 And it still takes a toll on me today. 524 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,161 I still think about that all the time. 525 00:28:51,197 --> 00:28:55,265 That affects you -- that affects you as a human being. 526 00:28:55,334 --> 00:28:57,501 You have to be low to be able to force 527 00:28:57,569 --> 00:29:00,003 someone to do something like that, to take away 528 00:29:00,072 --> 00:29:01,205 their humanity. 529 00:29:06,879 --> 00:29:10,180 JESSE: In 2003, I was eight years old. 530 00:29:10,216 --> 00:29:13,283 Alice was feeding us once a week at 531 00:29:13,352 --> 00:29:16,386 that time -- I hadn't seen my mother in months. 532 00:29:16,455 --> 00:29:20,424 So at that point, I kind of knew we were just on our own. 533 00:29:20,492 --> 00:29:22,359 I just wanted to get out. 534 00:29:22,427 --> 00:29:24,962 I start to try to convince Tyler 535 00:29:25,030 --> 00:29:28,899 and everybody else of the same thing. 536 00:29:28,967 --> 00:29:32,402 We were mainly trying to figure out how we were gonna 537 00:29:32,471 --> 00:29:36,039 get out of this situation, because at that time, Danny 538 00:29:36,108 --> 00:29:37,641 and Darrell had already talked to their father, 539 00:29:37,709 --> 00:29:39,510 Marissa had talked to her father, and nothing 540 00:29:39,578 --> 00:29:42,146 had happened, and that's when we started 541 00:29:42,214 --> 00:29:45,616 planning for essentially a getaway plan. 542 00:29:48,420 --> 00:29:53,323 So one evening, Marissa comes into the room while Alice 543 00:29:53,392 --> 00:29:55,125 and Mary sleeping, and she lets 544 00:29:55,194 --> 00:29:58,395 Tyler and I out of the closet, and Darrell and Danny and Caleb 545 00:29:58,463 --> 00:29:59,963 are all in the room, and she's like, 546 00:29:59,999 --> 00:30:03,600 "We gotta do it now," and she's panicked, like frantic panic. 547 00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:06,770 - What are you doing? - Shh! Stay quiet. 548 00:30:06,806 --> 00:30:09,439 We're gonna get you out of here. - What? Right now? 549 00:30:09,475 --> 00:30:10,741 JESSE: She was like, "Tonight's the night. 550 00:30:10,810 --> 00:30:12,910 Tonight's the night." - It can't wait. 551 00:30:12,945 --> 00:30:13,977 It has to be now. 552 00:30:14,013 --> 00:30:16,246 And that's when she had mentioned that 553 00:30:16,282 --> 00:30:18,515 we should try to go out the window. 554 00:30:18,551 --> 00:30:19,950 You got to go with them, Darrell, 555 00:30:20,018 --> 00:30:21,752 make sure they get out okay. 556 00:30:21,854 --> 00:30:23,020 JESSE: Then we have to decide, like, 557 00:30:23,088 --> 00:30:24,388 who's going, because there's six of us. 558 00:30:24,423 --> 00:30:27,291 We all can't go, because if Alice comes back in and looks 559 00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:29,726 in the room, the same people have to be in the room. 560 00:30:29,795 --> 00:30:31,195 We have to get you guys out first. 561 00:30:31,263 --> 00:30:32,663 BOY: Yeah, you guys have to go. 562 00:30:34,033 --> 00:30:38,569 Darrell, Tyler, and I decided to leave, and Caleb, Danny, 563 00:30:38,637 --> 00:30:40,437 and Marissa stay behind. 564 00:30:40,505 --> 00:30:43,240 We'll be fine -- now hurry. 565 00:30:44,510 --> 00:30:46,376 JESSE: Marissa tried to cover 566 00:30:46,445 --> 00:30:47,978 our tracks. 567 00:30:48,046 --> 00:30:49,446 She had put the dresser back in front of 568 00:30:49,514 --> 00:30:53,283 the closet just in case Alice would wake up and come in. 569 00:30:53,352 --> 00:30:56,587 Darrell wants me to get on his back, and then he's gonna climb 570 00:30:56,655 --> 00:31:00,123 down the gutter, so I get on his back, 571 00:31:00,192 --> 00:31:04,428 and he climb -- he shimmies over the edge of the roof, 572 00:31:04,463 --> 00:31:09,900 and he slides down the gutter, and when we land on the floor, 573 00:31:09,935 --> 00:31:13,170 the gutter breaks and makes the loudest bang. 574 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,441 We're waiting for Mary and Alice's bedroom light to just 575 00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:19,042 turn on, like we all froze, 576 00:31:19,111 --> 00:31:21,078 and we waited for a couple of minutes. 577 00:31:23,015 --> 00:31:25,048 Bedroom light never came on. 578 00:31:27,186 --> 00:31:29,453 Tyler jumps down from the roof, 579 00:31:29,521 --> 00:31:33,123 and then we start walking up the street. 580 00:31:34,326 --> 00:31:38,228 There was a bit of adrenaline, and then you realize, like, 581 00:31:38,297 --> 00:31:41,999 you just escaped and, like, you start like looking around, 582 00:31:42,067 --> 00:31:43,533 and like the sky goes all the way up, 583 00:31:43,569 --> 00:31:45,402 and there's trees everywhere, and it 584 00:31:45,437 --> 00:31:46,970 was very overwhelming. 585 00:31:49,041 --> 00:31:52,175 It's crazy. It was beautiful, though. 586 00:31:52,244 --> 00:31:57,014 Myself and my siblings, trekking to freedom, 587 00:31:57,049 --> 00:32:01,084 it was, like -- it's more beautiful now than it was then. 588 00:32:13,866 --> 00:32:16,733 Three near naked boys, 589 00:32:16,802 --> 00:32:20,103 walking in the streets at 3 a.m., 590 00:32:20,139 --> 00:32:25,008 malnourished and unclothed and unbathed, 591 00:32:25,077 --> 00:32:30,047 no shoes, no socks, almost looked like we were homeless. 592 00:32:30,082 --> 00:32:31,982 We had no plan. 593 00:32:32,017 --> 00:32:33,717 It was just, like, just get out 594 00:32:33,786 --> 00:32:38,288 and walk and, like, hopefully, someone would do something. 595 00:32:38,357 --> 00:32:41,024 We walked around the corner and got some 596 00:32:41,093 --> 00:32:43,393 water from a hose from some lady's house, 597 00:32:44,363 --> 00:32:47,731 and there was a house light that was on. 598 00:32:50,869 --> 00:32:52,202 And there was a lady just 599 00:32:52,270 --> 00:32:55,339 standing in the curtain, like, watching us, 600 00:32:55,374 --> 00:32:56,974 and she's holding the curtain with one hand, 601 00:32:57,042 --> 00:32:58,809 and she's got the phone in the other hand. 602 00:33:00,312 --> 00:33:02,279 No more than 30 seconds later, we get 603 00:33:02,314 --> 00:33:04,781 a cop car that comes zipping right at us, 604 00:33:04,850 --> 00:33:08,085 [sirens wailing] 605 00:33:08,153 --> 00:33:11,989 And they pull us over and ask us why we're walking around 606 00:33:12,057 --> 00:33:15,926 the streets of Akron, and we didn't want to say 607 00:33:15,994 --> 00:33:18,729 anything at first out of fear that we would just end up right 608 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:22,065 back at Alice's, and they would side with her. 609 00:33:23,802 --> 00:33:26,770 We were all sitting in the back seat, and that's when 610 00:33:26,838 --> 00:33:28,739 they had offered to buy us food 611 00:33:28,807 --> 00:33:30,574 if we would have a conversation with them, 612 00:33:32,011 --> 00:33:35,245 and they have taken us to get sandwiches and large 613 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,546 sports Gatorades -- 614 00:33:36,614 --> 00:33:40,650 A foot-long sub with meat and veggies and cheese and things 615 00:33:40,719 --> 00:33:42,252 I never even had before. 616 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:43,787 I had no clue what the sandwich was. 617 00:33:43,922 --> 00:33:45,956 Still don't to this day, because I'd never had 618 00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:47,290 it before. 619 00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:49,960 And the second we started eating in the back of their car 620 00:33:50,028 --> 00:33:52,996 and they noticed, like, how animalistic 621 00:33:53,032 --> 00:33:54,998 we were eating the sandwiches, 622 00:33:55,034 --> 00:33:56,933 and they realized something was wrong. 623 00:33:57,002 --> 00:33:59,369 And that's when we kind of started to tell them that 624 00:33:59,438 --> 00:34:00,804 we're being locked in a closet 625 00:34:00,906 --> 00:34:04,107 and starved and abused, and this is going on. 626 00:34:04,176 --> 00:34:05,475 What do you mean you live in the closet? 627 00:34:05,544 --> 00:34:08,245 We're not allowed to come out unless Alice says we can. 628 00:34:08,346 --> 00:34:10,814 They're not responding. 629 00:34:10,916 --> 00:34:13,550 They're just, like, sitting there, just, like, staring at us 630 00:34:13,585 --> 00:34:17,020 with, like, blank faces, just taking everything in. 631 00:34:17,056 --> 00:34:21,558 I was very terrified that they would not believe us. 632 00:34:21,593 --> 00:34:24,761 They make a radio call, and we're just, like, sitting there 633 00:34:24,797 --> 00:34:26,430 in silence, essentially, 634 00:34:26,498 --> 00:34:29,166 and they get off the radio call, 635 00:34:29,201 --> 00:34:30,901 and we just start driving. 636 00:34:30,936 --> 00:34:32,469 They literally tell us we're gonna 637 00:34:32,537 --> 00:34:34,371 take you back home. - No, please! 638 00:34:34,406 --> 00:34:37,040 So we're screaming, and we were freaking out. 639 00:34:37,076 --> 00:34:38,275 We're like, "Why are you taking this back?" 640 00:34:38,343 --> 00:34:39,576 You're supposed to help! 641 00:34:39,611 --> 00:34:43,180 We're trying, like, to get as low and scrunched in as 642 00:34:43,215 --> 00:34:45,582 possible so that if they open the back doors, 643 00:34:45,617 --> 00:34:47,551 they're gonna have to, like, literally pull us out of 644 00:34:47,619 --> 00:34:49,319 the car, because, like, there's no way 645 00:34:49,354 --> 00:34:50,787 we're going back to the closet. 646 00:34:55,661 --> 00:34:57,894 All right, we're taking you back. 647 00:34:57,930 --> 00:35:00,130 JESSE: It was very nerve-wracking. 648 00:35:00,198 --> 00:35:02,966 I definitely thought they were going to just side with Alice, 649 00:35:03,001 --> 00:35:04,534 just like everybody else had. 650 00:35:04,603 --> 00:35:07,104 You can't take us back there! 651 00:35:07,139 --> 00:35:09,206 And then they're just like, "Relax, relax. 652 00:35:09,274 --> 00:35:11,141 We're not taking you out of the car." 653 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,646 And then they stayed in the car with us, 654 00:35:16,715 --> 00:35:19,749 and a bunch of other police showed up. 655 00:35:19,818 --> 00:35:22,819 They kicked the door in, rushed inside. 656 00:35:22,921 --> 00:35:25,288 And then the next thing I know, out walks 657 00:35:25,357 --> 00:35:29,626 Alice and Mary in handcuffs, side by side. 658 00:35:29,694 --> 00:35:32,496 And that was the last time I saw my mom. 659 00:35:33,966 --> 00:35:35,665 I still think about it sometimes. 660 00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:37,934 It's definitely a moment that, like, plays in my head, 661 00:35:37,970 --> 00:35:40,437 and, like, it's nice, like, 662 00:35:40,505 --> 00:35:44,641 I don't know, that was, like, the moment, um, 663 00:35:44,709 --> 00:35:46,743 that, like, we were all able to get some peace, 664 00:35:46,812 --> 00:35:49,179 and they were gonna pay for what they did. 665 00:36:04,496 --> 00:36:09,799 ♪ 666 00:36:09,868 --> 00:36:11,101 These are me. 667 00:36:11,169 --> 00:36:13,470 Um, these are two photos I keep on my phone. 668 00:36:13,538 --> 00:36:15,972 It was like -- I kind of just look at to, like, 669 00:36:16,008 --> 00:36:17,941 remind me... 670 00:36:18,009 --> 00:36:20,377 remind me where I came from. 671 00:36:20,412 --> 00:36:25,115 Um, these two pictures show the abuse and neglect 672 00:36:25,183 --> 00:36:29,920 and malnourishment that we faced under Alice 673 00:36:29,988 --> 00:36:32,422 and Mary's wrath. 674 00:36:32,490 --> 00:36:34,224 I was eight years old, and I weighed 675 00:36:34,292 --> 00:36:36,193 28 pounds in these photos. 676 00:36:36,261 --> 00:36:39,996 I don't have any chest, and my sternum's caved in 677 00:36:40,032 --> 00:36:41,131 a little bit. 678 00:36:41,233 --> 00:36:44,100 I've got huge bags under my eyes, 679 00:36:44,169 --> 00:36:47,404 like I haven't slept in weeks. 680 00:36:47,472 --> 00:36:50,540 I remember, like, being this size, like, for 681 00:36:50,576 --> 00:36:52,943 a long time, and just, like, felt like years. 682 00:36:52,978 --> 00:36:54,978 I felt like a really old soul in that body. 683 00:36:55,046 --> 00:36:57,180 I'm just proud of myself, too. 684 00:36:57,249 --> 00:37:03,353 Like I know, he's proud of me, and I'm proud of him. 685 00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:19,269 This is my favorite photo. 686 00:37:19,337 --> 00:37:22,205 I take a lot of pride in this photo. 687 00:37:22,274 --> 00:37:27,577 This photo was taken, um, about a year after. 688 00:37:27,646 --> 00:37:30,280 This was, like, the epitome of being, 689 00:37:30,349 --> 00:37:32,249 like, a kid, and I would just like ride in circles in 690 00:37:32,317 --> 00:37:36,219 the driveway all day long. 691 00:37:36,288 --> 00:37:39,322 These were good years in my life where, like, nothing bad 692 00:37:39,391 --> 00:37:41,591 happened, where I was able to just, like, soak up time 693 00:37:41,660 --> 00:37:45,095 and, like, be a kid and do what I wanted, and I didn't have to 694 00:37:45,163 --> 00:37:47,964 worry about anything, and people were taking care of me. 695 00:37:48,033 --> 00:37:51,568 Someone who wasn't my mother was willing to give me that, 696 00:37:51,636 --> 00:37:54,604 like, time and attention and effort to, like, have 697 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,239 a childhood. 698 00:38:06,585 --> 00:38:09,219 MAN: Mary Rowles sobbed in court. 699 00:38:09,287 --> 00:38:12,088 Alice Jenkins showed little emotion as they heard the long 700 00:38:12,124 --> 00:38:15,058 list of charges they were about to admit to -- 701 00:38:15,126 --> 00:38:17,093 Kidnapping, felonious assault, 702 00:38:17,162 --> 00:38:19,562 endangering children, and then... 703 00:38:19,598 --> 00:38:22,232 Miss Jenkins, what is your plea? - Guilty. 704 00:38:22,267 --> 00:38:25,969 Alice and Mary both pled guilty and were sentenced to 705 00:38:26,004 --> 00:38:27,203 30 years. 706 00:38:27,272 --> 00:38:30,840 I think that both Mary and Alice 707 00:38:30,909 --> 00:38:34,711 pled guilty just to limit the time they'd spend behind bars. 708 00:38:34,813 --> 00:38:37,314 MAN: Judge Patricia Cosgrove held Mary Rowles 709 00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:38,715 just as responsible, 710 00:38:38,817 --> 00:38:41,351 even if she may not have initiated the abuse. 711 00:38:41,419 --> 00:38:42,819 At any point in time, 712 00:38:42,921 --> 00:38:45,822 if you acted as a mother in this case, 713 00:38:45,924 --> 00:38:48,291 you could have prevented the harm to your children. 714 00:38:48,393 --> 00:38:49,726 You chose not to. 715 00:38:53,932 --> 00:38:55,565 Now, 716 00:38:55,633 --> 00:38:58,902 I'm already halfway through those 30 years, it's been 15. 717 00:38:58,970 --> 00:39:02,238 So in 2033, they both get out, 718 00:39:02,307 --> 00:39:05,008 and, like, now that I, like, start getting closer 719 00:39:05,076 --> 00:39:08,178 to that end date, just doesn't seem like enough time. 720 00:39:09,314 --> 00:39:11,414 Our conditions as children were worse 721 00:39:11,483 --> 00:39:14,517 than their conditions in a state prison. 722 00:39:17,789 --> 00:39:20,657 These are their online 723 00:39:20,725 --> 00:39:24,527 inmate photos -- Alice definitely looks tired in 724 00:39:24,596 --> 00:39:25,962 the eyes. 725 00:39:26,030 --> 00:39:29,165 Mary has changed a lot. She looks super old. 726 00:39:29,234 --> 00:39:32,302 It just makes me angry that they could still be smiling. 727 00:39:32,337 --> 00:39:35,472 They almost look content and comfortable 728 00:39:35,540 --> 00:39:37,040 with where they're at. 729 00:39:37,108 --> 00:39:40,310 Back in 2017, 730 00:39:40,345 --> 00:39:43,646 I had contacted Alice and asked her why she did 731 00:39:43,682 --> 00:39:45,782 the things she did and if she felt 732 00:39:45,851 --> 00:39:47,751 any remorse, and she claimed that 733 00:39:47,819 --> 00:39:50,286 she didn't do anything wrong and that she was playing 734 00:39:50,355 --> 00:39:51,755 the role and doing the job that 735 00:39:51,823 --> 00:39:53,990 Mary should have done as the mother. 736 00:39:54,058 --> 00:39:59,796 ♪ 737 00:39:59,865 --> 00:40:02,298 Mary, she writes me occasionally. 738 00:40:02,367 --> 00:40:04,501 Mary would always just reply that she's sorry. 739 00:40:04,569 --> 00:40:06,336 She should have never let it happen. 740 00:40:06,371 --> 00:40:10,240 I don't believe her apologies. 741 00:40:10,308 --> 00:40:15,145 I think it's just what Mary expects people want to hear. 742 00:40:17,082 --> 00:40:19,716 But it was important to forgive her 743 00:40:19,818 --> 00:40:23,353 and not forget it but just to let her go and 744 00:40:23,421 --> 00:40:26,756 let her existence be hers and let mine be mine. 745 00:40:26,825 --> 00:40:29,626 I want to forgive Alice, but I haven't yet. 746 00:40:31,196 --> 00:40:33,930 It's hard to look back on what happened between 747 00:40:33,998 --> 00:40:37,500 me and my siblings, but we endured and made it through. 748 00:40:37,569 --> 00:40:39,869 Darrell ended up having kids of his own, 749 00:40:39,938 --> 00:40:41,271 and Danny is doing pretty good, 750 00:40:41,339 --> 00:40:45,008 he's married and has a couple of kids, and I talk to Danny 751 00:40:45,076 --> 00:40:46,476 pretty -- pretty regularly. 752 00:40:46,544 --> 00:40:49,279 Um, Tyler, as well. 753 00:40:49,347 --> 00:40:51,281 I haven't talked to Caleb in a few years. 754 00:40:53,919 --> 00:40:55,318 I love Marissa. 755 00:40:55,353 --> 00:40:58,421 After years of separation, 756 00:40:58,490 --> 00:41:02,125 I was able to get in contact with her and meet her beautiful 757 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,661 children and see her 758 00:41:04,696 --> 00:41:07,063 as, like, a full-grown parent. 759 00:41:07,098 --> 00:41:09,632 She was just... 760 00:41:10,936 --> 00:41:12,168 a good mother. 761 00:41:12,237 --> 00:41:14,137 She just wanted -- that was her dream, like, that's all she 762 00:41:14,172 --> 00:41:20,176 wanted was to be a mom and do it right, and on her way home, 763 00:41:20,245 --> 00:41:22,745 she dropped her kids off at school, and then on her way home 764 00:41:22,847 --> 00:41:24,013 from dropping her kids off at school, 765 00:41:24,049 --> 00:41:26,282 she got hit in a head-on collision 766 00:41:26,318 --> 00:41:29,419 by a street racer, and it killed her instantly. 767 00:41:33,658 --> 00:41:35,959 I don't know, man. 768 00:41:36,027 --> 00:41:38,561 I just think about Marissa every day. 769 00:41:47,205 --> 00:41:49,305 I want to know why it all happened, and we could 770 00:41:49,374 --> 00:41:52,008 have been a good, like, strong family. 771 00:41:52,076 --> 00:41:54,477 Like, there's no reason we couldn't have been. 772 00:41:54,546 --> 00:41:58,948 I know, like, I could have died in that situation, like... 773 00:42:00,685 --> 00:42:03,686 they were gonna let me, so, like, I see 774 00:42:03,755 --> 00:42:05,588 the world through a lens where bad things are 775 00:42:05,657 --> 00:42:07,957 probably happening, 776 00:42:08,026 --> 00:42:10,560 um, and I just want more things to be done about it. 777 00:42:11,997 --> 00:42:14,797 You look at the homes, like, nobody knows what goes on 778 00:42:14,866 --> 00:42:16,733 inside a house, like, nobody, 779 00:42:18,436 --> 00:42:22,071 You just don't know -- There's, like, demons inside 780 00:42:22,140 --> 00:42:25,008 some homes, and, like, you just don't know.